diff --git a/lib/installedtest.pm b/lib/installedtest.pm
index 90b86a3c..94c460a0 100644
--- a/lib/installedtest.pm
+++ b/lib/installedtest.pm
@@ -98,6 +98,11 @@ sub post_fail_hook {
 
     # Sometimes useful for diagnosing FreeIPA issues
     upload_logs "/etc/nsswitch.conf", failok=>1;
+
+    # for installer creation test
+    upload_logs "/root/imgbuild/pylorax.log", failok=>1;
+    upload_logs "/root/imgbuild/lorax.log", failok=>1;
+    upload_logs "/root/imgbuild/program.log", failok=>1;
 }
 
     # For update tests, let's do the update package info log stuff,
diff --git a/main.pm b/main.pm
index dda83af0..96294559 100644
--- a/main.pm
+++ b/main.pm
@@ -272,8 +272,10 @@ sub load_postinstall_tests() {
     # (intended for the updates testing workflow, so we install the updates
     # to be tested). Don't do this for UPGRADE tests, as the update gets
     # installed as part of the upgrade in that case and we don't need the
-    # extra reboot.
-    if (get_var("ADVISORY") && !get_var("UPGRADE")) {
+    # extra reboot. Don't do this for INSTALL test(s); these are checking
+    # that an installer image built from the update works and do not install
+    # the update themselves.
+    if (get_var("ADVISORY") && !get_var("UPGRADE") && !get_var("INSTALL")) {
         autotest::loadtest "tests/_advisory_update.pm";
         # now load the early boot tests again, as _advisory_update reboots
         _load_early_postinstall_tests(2);
@@ -315,8 +317,10 @@ sub load_postinstall_tests() {
     }
 
     # load the ADVISORY post-install test - this records which update
-    # packages were actually installed during the test
-    if (get_var("ADVISORY")) {
+    # packages were actually installed during the test. Don't do this
+    # for INSTALL test(s); these are checking that an installer image
+    # built from the update works and do not install the update themselves.
+    if (get_var("ADVISORY") && !get_var("INSTALL")) {
         autotest::loadtest "tests/_advisory_post.pm";
     }
 
@@ -343,9 +347,10 @@ if (get_var("ENTRYPOINT")) {
 elsif (get_var("UPGRADE")) {
     load_upgrade_tests;
 }
-elsif (!get_var("START_AFTER_TEST") && !get_var("BOOTFROM")) {
+elsif ((!get_var("START_AFTER_TEST") && !get_var("BOOTFROM")) || get_var("INSTALL")) {
     # for now we can assume START_AFTER_TEST and BOOTFROM mean the
-    # test picks up after an install, so we skip to post-install
+    # test picks up after an install, so we skip to post-install,
+    # unless the override INSTALL var is set
     load_install_tests;
 }
 
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/install_process/install_done-reboot-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/install_process/install_done-reboot-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..af0aca2e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/install_process/install_done-reboot-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,24 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "ypos": 636,
+      "xpos": 704,
+      "type": "match",
+      "width": 314,
+      "height": 20
+    },
+    {
+      "ypos": 685,
+      "type": "match",
+      "xpos": 955,
+      "height": 14,
+      "width": 48
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "anaconda_install_done",
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora",
+    "LANGUAGE-english"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/install_process/install_done-reboot-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/install_process/install_done-reboot-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..bd79b208
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/install_process/install_done-reboot-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/install_process/install_finish_configuration-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/install_process/install_finish_configuration-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..dfb0f4f7
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/install_process/install_finish_configuration-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "type": "match",
+      "xpos": 886,
+      "height": 17,
+      "width": 118,
+      "ypos": 685
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "anaconda_install_finish_configuration",
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora",
+    "LANGUAGE-english"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/install_process/install_finish_configuration-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/install_process/install_finish_configuration-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..aceea2cf
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/install_process/install_finish_configuration-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/install_process/root_password-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/install_process/root_password-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..037518f9
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/install_process/root_password-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,16 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "ypos": 161,
+      "xpos": 186,
+      "type": "match",
+      "width": 72,
+      "height": 57
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "anaconda_install_root_password",
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/install_process/root_password-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/install_process/root_password-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e9282a17
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/install_process/root_password-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/install_process/root_password_screen-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/install_process/root_password_screen-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..435b1583
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/install_process/root_password_screen-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,18 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "xpos": 244,
+      "type": "match",
+      "width": 96,
+      "height": 15,
+      "ypos": 124
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "anaconda_install_root_password_screen",
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora",
+    "LANGUAGE-english",
+    "ENV-FLAVOR-server"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/install_process/root_password_screen-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/install_process/root_password_screen-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..21c872bf
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/install_process/root_password_screen-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..1a1f5529
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,16 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "xpos": 630,
+      "type": "match",
+      "width": 19,
+      "height": 59,
+      "ypos": 154
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora",
+    "anaconda_install_user_creation"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d02f0f99
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation_make_admin-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation_make_admin-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..35fc024f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation_make_admin-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "xpos": 362,
+      "type": "match",
+      "width": 194,
+      "height": 21,
+      "ypos": 212
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora",
+    "LANGUAGE-english",
+    "anaconda_install_user_creation_make_admin"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation_make_admin-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation_make_admin-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2e456e16
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation_make_admin-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation_screen-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation_screen-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..af6b8842
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation_screen-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,25 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "ypos": 153,
+      "height": 17,
+      "width": 69,
+      "type": "match",
+      "xpos": 272
+    },
+    {
+      "type": "match",
+      "xpos": 281,
+      "height": 17,
+      "width": 62,
+      "ypos": 278
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "anaconda_install_user_creation_screen",
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora",
+    "LANGUAGE-english",
+    "ENV-FLAVOR-server"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation_screen-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation_screen-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f3aa1e50
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/install_process/user_creation_screen-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..5317cd56
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,16 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "ypos": 103,
+      "width": 87,
+      "height": 28,
+      "xpos": 357,
+      "type": "match"
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "anaconda_select_install_lang",
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..4b215b16
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang_continue-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang_continue-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..8f0f1a22
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang_continue-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "xpos": 927,
+      "type": "match",
+      "width": 88,
+      "height": 24,
+      "ypos": 733
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "anaconda_select_install_lang_continue",
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora",
+    "LANGUAGE-english"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang_continue-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang_continue-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9755e5af
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang_continue-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang_english_selected-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang_english_selected-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7e3673bc
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang_english_selected-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,18 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "ypos": 200,
+      "type": "match",
+      "xpos": 603,
+      "height": 18,
+      "width": 165
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "anaconda_select_install_lang_selected",
+    "anaconda_select_install_lang_filtered",
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora",
+    "LANGUAGE-english"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang_english_selected-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang_english_selected-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b2c2b9ea
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/lang_select/install_lang_english_selected-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/main_hub/begin_installation-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/main_hub/begin_installation-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c6a337f9
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/main_hub/begin_installation-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "height": 17,
+      "width": 107,
+      "type": "match",
+      "xpos": 895,
+      "ypos": 707
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "anaconda_main_hub_begin_installation",
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora",
+    "LANGUAGE-english"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/main_hub/begin_installation-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/main_hub/begin_installation-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..fd1e3dd9
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/main_hub/begin_installation-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/main_hub/install_destination-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/main_hub/install_destination-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..82cde901
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/main_hub/install_destination-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "ypos": 463,
+      "width": 66,
+      "height": 75,
+      "xpos": 189,
+      "type": "match"
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "anaconda_main_hub_install_destination",
+    "anaconda_main_hub_install_destination_warning",
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/main_hub/install_destination-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/main_hub/install_destination-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2f4db324
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/main_hub/install_destination-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/main_hub/nonlive-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/main_hub/nonlive-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0914db9e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/main_hub/nonlive-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,30 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "ypos": 344,
+      "xpos": 190,
+      "type": "match",
+      "width": 63,
+      "height": 61
+    },
+    {
+      "xpos": 184,
+      "type": "match",
+      "width": 74,
+      "height": 56,
+      "ypos": 154
+    },
+    {
+      "ypos": 216,
+      "height": 70,
+      "width": 66,
+      "type": "match",
+      "xpos": 186
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "anaconda_main_hub",
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/main_hub/nonlive-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/main_hub/nonlive-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2f4db324
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/main_hub/nonlive-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/universal/rawhide_accept_fate-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/universal/rawhide_accept_fate-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ecc5782a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/universal/rawhide_accept_fate-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "ypos": 469,
+      "width": 100,
+      "height": 17,
+      "xpos": 648,
+      "type": "match"
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora",
+    "LANGUAGE-english",
+    "anaconda_rawhide_accept_fate"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/universal/rawhide_accept_fate-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/universal/rawhide_accept_fate-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b31f0e3e
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/universal/rawhide_accept_fate-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/universal/spoke_done-f28-20190118.json b/needles/anaconda/universal/spoke_done-f28-20190118.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..540c4c42
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/anaconda/universal/spoke_done-f28-20190118.json
@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "type": "match",
+      "xpos": 23,
+      "height": 22,
+      "width": 55,
+      "ypos": 50
+    }
+  ],
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "anaconda_spoke_done",
+    "ENV-DISTRI-fedora",
+    "LANGUAGE-english"
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/anaconda/universal/spoke_done-f28-20190118.png b/needles/anaconda/universal/spoke_done-f28-20190118.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..fc6da020
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/anaconda/universal/spoke_done-f28-20190118.png differ
diff --git a/templates b/templates
index 4b40887c..1dd4a9ab 100755
--- a/templates
+++ b/templates
@@ -4963,7 +4963,7 @@
                         { key => "ROOT_PASSWORD", value => "weakpassword" },
                         { key => "USER_LOGIN", value => "false" },
                         { key => "BOOTFROM", value => "c" },
-                        { key => "HDD_1", value => "disk_f%CURRREL%_minimal_2_%ARCH%.img" },
+                        { key => "HDD_1", value => "disk_f%CURRREL%_minimal_3_%ARCH%.img" },
                         { key => "UPGRADE", value => "1" },
                         { key => "TEST_TARGET", value => "COMPOSE" },
                       ],
@@ -5063,7 +5063,7 @@
                         { key => "ROOT_PASSWORD", value => "weakpassword" },
                         { key => "USER_LOGIN", value => "false" },
                         { key => "BOOTFROM", value => "c" },
-                        { key => "HDD_1", value => "disk_f%PREVREL%_minimal_2_%ARCH%.img" },
+                        { key => "HDD_1", value => "disk_f%PREVREL%_minimal_3_%ARCH%.img" },
                         { key => "UPGRADE", value => "1" },
                         { key => "TEST_TARGET", value => "COMPOSE" },
                       ],
diff --git a/templates-updates b/templates-updates
index 915f4c3e..3e7b6d9d 100755
--- a/templates-updates
+++ b/templates-updates
@@ -366,6 +366,30 @@
                                     },
                       test_suite => { name => "advisory_boot" },
                     },
+                    {
+                      group_name => "Fedora Updates",
+                      machine    => { name => "64bit" },
+                      prio       => 40,
+                      product    => {
+                                      arch    => "x86_64",
+                                      distri  => "fedora",
+                                      flavor  => "updates-installer",
+                                      version => "*",
+                                    },
+                      test_suite => { name => "installer_build" },
+                    },
+                    {
+                      group_name => "Fedora Updates",
+                      machine    => { name => "64bit" },
+                      prio       => 40,
+                      product    => {
+                                      arch    => "x86_64",
+                                      distri  => "fedora",
+                                      flavor  => "updates-installer",
+                                      version => "*",
+                                    },
+                      test_suite => { name => "install_default_update" },
+                    },
                     {
                       group_name => "Fedora PowerPC Updates",
                       machine    => { name => "ppc64le" },
@@ -881,6 +905,15 @@
                                    ],
                       version   => "*",
                     },
+                    {
+                      arch      => "x86_64",
+                      distri    => "fedora",
+                      flavor    => "updates-installer",
+                      name      => "",
+                      settings  => [
+                                   ],
+                      version   => "*",
+                    },
                     {
                       arch      => "ppc64le",
                       distri    => "fedora",
@@ -937,5 +970,24 @@
                         { key => "ADVISORY_BOOT_TEST", value => "1" },
                       ],
                     },
+                    {
+                      name => "installer_build",
+                      settings => [
+                        { key => "POSTINSTALL", value => "_installer_build" },
+                        { key => "USER_LOGIN", value => "false" },
+                        { key => "ROOT_PASSWORD", value => "weakpassword" },
+                        { key => "BOOTFROM", value => "c" },
+                        { key => "HDD_1", value => "disk_f%VERSION%_minimal_3_%ARCH%.img" },
+                      ],
+                    },
+                    {
+                      name => "install_default_update",
+                      settings => [
+                        { key => "INSTALL", value => "1" },
+                        { key => "ISO", value => "%ADVISORY%-netinst-%ARCH%.iso" },
+                        { key => "PACKAGE_SET", value => "default" },
+                        { key => "+START_AFTER_TEST", value => "installer_build" },
+                      ],
+                    },
                   ],
 }
diff --git a/tests/_installer_build.pm b/tests/_installer_build.pm
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ffb6a9ee
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tests/_installer_build.pm
@@ -0,0 +1,43 @@
+use base "installedtest";
+use strict;
+use testapi;
+use utils;
+
+sub run {
+    my $self = shift;
+    my $version = get_var("VERSION");
+    my $advisory = get_var("ADVISORY");
+    my $arch = get_var("ARCH");
+    # we need lorax from u-t for f28 atm it seems
+    my $loraxcmd = "dnf -y ";
+    $loraxcmd .= "--enablerepo=updates-testing " if (get_var("VERSION") eq "28");
+    $loraxcmd .= "install lorax";
+    assert_script_run $loraxcmd, 90;
+    # this 'temporary file cleanup' thing can actually wipe bits of
+    # the lorax install root while lorax is still running...
+    assert_script_run "systemctl stop systemd-tmpfiles-clean.timer";
+    # dracut-fips doesn't exist any more; this breaks f28 builds as
+    # it *did* exist when f28 came out, so lorax tries to use
+    # dracut-fips from the frozen release repo with newer lorax from
+    # the updates repo which obsoletes it, and gets confused
+    assert_script_run 'sed -i -e "s,dracut-fips,,g" /usr/share/lorax/templates.d/99-generic/runtime-install.tmpl';
+    assert_script_run "mkdir -p /root/imgbuild";
+    assert_script_run "pushd /root/imgbuild";
+    assert_script_run "setenforce Permissive";
+    my $cmd = "lorax -p Fedora -v ${version} -r ${version} --repo=/etc/yum.repos.d/fedora.repo";
+    unless (get_var("DEVELOPMENT")) {
+        $cmd .= " --isfinal --repo=/etc/yum.repos.d/fedora-updates.repo";
+    }
+    $cmd .= " --repo=/etc/yum.repos.d/advisory.repo ./results";
+    assert_script_run $cmd, 1500;
+    assert_script_run "mv results/images/boot.iso ./${advisory}-netinst-${arch}.iso";
+    upload_asset "./${advisory}-netinst-x86_64.iso";
+}
+
+sub test_flags {
+    return { fatal => 1 };
+}
+
+1;
+
+# vim: set sw=4 et: