diff --git a/needles/gnome/desktop_no_notifications.json b/needles/gnome/desktop_no_notifications.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..fc81378c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/gnome/desktop_no_notifications.json
@@ -0,0 +1,15 @@
+{
+    "area": [
+        {
+            "height": 47,
+            "type": "match",
+            "width": 47,
+            "xpos": 345,
+            "ypos": 249
+        }
+    ],
+    "tags": [
+        "desktop_no_notifications",
+        "DESKTOP-gnome"
+    ]
+}
diff --git a/needles/gnome/desktop_no_notifications.png b/needles/gnome/desktop_no_notifications.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2ede15bb
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/gnome/desktop_no_notifications.png differ
diff --git a/needles/gnome/desktop_update_notification_only.json b/needles/gnome/desktop_update_notification_only.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f597f00d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/gnome/desktop_update_notification_only.json
@@ -0,0 +1,15 @@
+{
+    "area": [
+        {
+            "height": 95,
+            "type": "match",
+            "width": 40,
+            "xpos": 170,
+            "ypos": 90
+        }
+    ],
+    "tags": [
+        "desktop_update_notification_only",
+        "DESKTOP-gnome"
+    ]
+}
diff --git a/needles/gnome/desktop_update_notification_only.png b/needles/gnome/desktop_update_notification_only.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f827d9d7
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/gnome/desktop_update_notification_only.png differ
diff --git a/needles/kde/desktop_expand_notifications.json b/needles/kde/desktop_expand_systray.json
similarity index 84%
rename from needles/kde/desktop_expand_notifications.json
rename to needles/kde/desktop_expand_systray.json
index 1a3b08ef..a5d5d7fa 100644
--- a/needles/kde/desktop_expand_notifications.json
+++ b/needles/kde/desktop_expand_systray.json
@@ -10,7 +10,7 @@
   ],
   "tags": [
     "DESKTOP-kde",
-    "desktop_expand_notifications"
+    "desktop_expand_systray"
   ],
   "properties": []
 }
diff --git a/needles/kde/desktop_expand_notifications.png b/needles/kde/desktop_expand_systray.png
similarity index 100%
rename from needles/kde/desktop_expand_notifications.png
rename to needles/kde/desktop_expand_systray.png
diff --git a/needles/kde/desktop_no_notifications.json b/needles/kde/desktop_no_notifications.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..90de1375
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/kde/desktop_no_notifications.json
@@ -0,0 +1,15 @@
+{
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "xpos": 651,
+      "ypos": 436,
+      "width": 198,
+      "height": 25,
+      "type": "match"
+    }
+  ],
+  "tags": [
+    "desktop_no_notifications"
+  ],
+  "properties": []
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/kde/desktop_no_notifications.png b/needles/kde/desktop_no_notifications.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2946afac
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/kde/desktop_no_notifications.png differ
diff --git a/needles/kde/desktop_systray_notifications.json b/needles/kde/desktop_systray_notifications.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0953008c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/kde/desktop_systray_notifications.json
@@ -0,0 +1,16 @@
+{
+  "properties": [],
+  "tags": [
+    "DESKTOP-kde",
+    "desktop_systray_notifications"
+  ],
+  "area": [
+    {
+      "xpos": 641,
+      "ypos": 443,
+      "width": 83,
+      "height": 16,
+      "type": "match"
+    }
+  ]
+}
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/needles/kde/desktop_systray_notifications.png b/needles/kde/desktop_systray_notifications.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f824fe59
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/kde/desktop_systray_notifications.png differ
diff --git a/needles/kde/desktop_update_notification_only.json b/needles/kde/desktop_update_notification_only.json
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d98d95b0
--- /dev/null
+++ b/needles/kde/desktop_update_notification_only.json
@@ -0,0 +1,22 @@
+{
+    "area": [
+        {
+            "height": 18,
+            "type": "match",
+            "width": 18,
+            "xpos": 663,
+            "ypos": 743
+        },
+        {
+            "height": 18,
+            "type": "match",
+            "width": 18,
+            "xpos": 767,
+            "ypos": 743
+        }
+    ],
+    "tags": [
+        "desktop_update_notification_only",
+        "DESKTOP-kde"
+    ]
+}
diff --git a/needles/kde/desktop_update_notification_only.png b/needles/kde/desktop_update_notification_only.png
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f46cb7c3
Binary files /dev/null and b/needles/kde/desktop_update_notification_only.png differ
diff --git a/templates b/templates
index ee909aea..5a57ca83 100755
--- a/templates
+++ b/templates
@@ -369,6 +369,50 @@
                                     },
                       test_suite => { name => "desktop_browser" },
                     },
+                    {
+                      machine    => { name => "64bit" },
+                      prio       => 30,
+                      product    => {
+                                      arch    => "x86_64",
+                                      distri  => "fedora",
+                                      flavor  => "Workstation-live-iso",
+                                      version => "*",
+                                    },
+                      test_suite => { name => "desktop_notifications_live" },
+                    },
+                    {
+                      machine    => { name => "64bit" },
+                      prio       => 32,
+                      product    => {
+                                      arch    => "x86_64",
+                                      distri  => "fedora",
+                                      flavor  => "KDE-live-iso",
+                                      version => "*",
+                                    },
+                      test_suite => { name => "desktop_notifications_live" },
+                    },
+                    {
+                      machine    => { name => "64bit" },
+                      prio       => 30,
+                      product    => {
+                                      arch    => "x86_64",
+                                      distri  => "fedora",
+                                      flavor  => "Workstation-live-iso",
+                                      version => "*",
+                                    },
+                      test_suite => { name => "desktop_notifications_postinstall" },
+                    },
+                    {
+                      machine    => { name => "64bit" },
+                      prio       => 32,
+                      product    => {
+                                      arch    => "x86_64",
+                                      distri  => "fedora",
+                                      flavor  => "KDE-live-iso",
+                                      version => "*",
+                                    },
+                      test_suite => { name => "desktop_notifications_postinstall" },
+                    },
                     {
                       machine    => { name => "64bit" },
                       prio       => 30,
@@ -2127,6 +2171,21 @@
                         { key => "HDD_1", value => "disk_%FLAVOR%_%MACHINE%.qcow2" },
                       ],
                     },
+                    {
+                      name => "desktop_notifications_postinstall",
+                      settings => [
+                        { key => "POSTINSTALL", value => "desktop_notifications" },
+                        { key => "START_AFTER_TEST", value => "install_default_upload" },
+                        { key => "BOOTFROM", value => "c" },
+                        { key => "HDD_1", value => "disk_%FLAVOR%_%MACHINE%.qcow2" },
+                      ],
+                    },
+                    {
+                      name => "desktop_notifications_live",
+                      settings => [
+                        { key => "ENTRYPOINT", value => "desktop_notifications_postinstall" },
+                      ],
+                    },
                     {
                       name => "install_kickstart_nfs",
                       settings => [
diff --git a/tests/desktop_notifications_postinstall.pm b/tests/desktop_notifications_postinstall.pm
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..3f328d2f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tests/desktop_notifications_postinstall.pm
@@ -0,0 +1,71 @@
+use base "installedtest";
+use strict;
+use testapi;
+use main_common;
+use packagetest;
+
+# This test sort of covers QA:Testcase_desktop_update_notification
+# and QA:Testcase_desktop_error_checks . If it fails, probably *one*
+# of those failed, but we don't know which (deciphering which is
+# tricky and involves likely-fragile needles to try and figure out
+# what notifications we have).
+
+sub run {
+    my $self = shift;
+    # for the live image case, handle bootloader here
+    unless (get_var("BOOTFROM")) {
+        $self->do_bootloader(postinstall=>0);
+    }
+    assert_screen "graphical_desktop_clean", 300;
+    # ensure we actually have some package updates available
+    # we're kinda theoretically racing with the update check here,
+    # but we have no great way to handle that especially live; let's
+    # just assume we're gonna win
+    $self->root_console(tty=>3);
+    prepare_test_packages;
+    $self->desktop_vt();
+    # now, WE WAIT. this is just an unconditional wait - rather than
+    # breaking if we see an update notification appear - so we catch
+    # things that crash a few minutes after startup, etc.
+    for my $n (1..5) {
+        sleep 120;
+        mouse_set 10, 10;
+        mouse_hide;
+    }
+    my $desktop = get_var("DESKTOP");
+    if ($desktop eq 'gnome') {
+        # of course, we have no idea what'll be in the clock, so we just
+        # have to click where we know it is
+        mouse_set 512, 10;
+        mouse_click;
+    }
+    elsif ($desktop eq 'kde' && !get_var("BOOTFROM")) {
+        # the order and number of systray icons varies in KDE, so we
+        # can't really just use a systray 'no notifications' needle.
+        # instead open up the 'extended systray' thingy and click on
+        # the notifications bit
+        assert_and_click 'desktop_expand_systray';
+        assert_and_click 'desktop_systray_notifications';
+    }
+    if (get_var("BOOTFROM")) {
+        # we should see an update notification and no others
+        check_screen "desktop_update_notification_only";
+    }
+    else {
+        # for the live case there should be *no* notifications
+        assert_screen "desktop_no_notifications";
+    }
+}
+
+
+sub test_flags {
+    # without anything - rollback to 'lastgood' snapshot if failed
+    # 'fatal' - whole test suite is in danger if this fails
+    # 'milestone' - after this test succeeds, update 'lastgood'
+    # 'important' - if this fails, set the overall state to 'fail'
+    return { fatal => 1 };
+}
+
+1;
+
+# vim: set sw=4 et:
diff --git a/tests/desktop_update_graphical_postinstall.pm b/tests/desktop_update_graphical_postinstall.pm
index d97aa97c..4bed9402 100644
--- a/tests/desktop_update_graphical_postinstall.pm
+++ b/tests/desktop_update_graphical_postinstall.pm
@@ -16,7 +16,7 @@ sub run {
     if ($desktop eq 'kde') {
         # KDE team tells me the 'preferred' update method is the
         # systray applet
-        assert_and_click 'desktop_expand_notifications';
+        assert_and_click 'desktop_expand_systray';
     }
     else {
         # this launches GNOME Software on GNOME, dunno for any other